Tuesday, January 02, 2007

Happy New Year!

I thought I'd put a pulse through the blog since I arrived back home last evening. I'm missing the Gathering in Orlando this week--a serendipidous possibly major event in the Wesleyan Church. It was originally meant to be a kind of first time spiritual formation event to which all Wesleyan ministers were invited. The response was surprisingly overwhelming, a major social event. And coming as it does a year before our general conference, the coffee talk conversations have the potential to shape the future of the denomination.

I don't think it will achieve that potential this time, though. For one thing, I don't know of anything that's really stirring, unless it would be some changes to how membership works in the Wesleyan Church. I hope to post Sunday/Monday on some thoughts brewing on that subject. And since Keith Drury isn't there, what could really happen of prophetic significance anyway ;-)

Second, the success could--I hope not--turn out to be the thing's actual demise. They did not book enough space for everyone they let come, so they're having to pipe video into alternative spaces. I hope it works but it could turn out to be a major downer. Let's do it again in three years and plan for a major turn out! That way it turns out to be the major cohesive event opposite the 4 year general conferences.

Finally, the speakers have little to nothing to do with our church. They're the typical big name fair that has been the way the WC has gone for years now--little man complex that doesn't think it has any winners in its own ranks. Maybe it doesn't and we should just join some other real denomination (sarcasm, if you had any doubt). That's part of why these things never interest me. Bill Hybels has a lot of good to say, sure. Graham's daughter is I'm sure a good speaker (although don't call her a minister). I think there is another big name speaker who still has his membership in our denomination, but he pretty much has always done his own thing. Can't remember what his name is.

But I think Jim Dunn (isn't he behind this?) has stumbled on a good thing. This is the kind of thing that gives a denomination a sense of identity--and there need not be anything cognitive about it.

14 comments:

James Petticrew said...

"Maybe it doesn't and we should just join some other real denomination" ... come on over to the REAL holiness denomination we are waiting and I looking forward to Drury being reordained by someone from Kansas City! (my sarcasm, if you had any doubt)
"Graham's daughter is I'm sure a good speaker" ... mmm heard her, not so sure!

Scott D. Hendricks said...

Glad you took a good, long rest from the internet . . . how did it treat you?

Ken Schenck said...

Somewhat of a forced break--on the road to visit family in Florida. I'm going to try to do the once a week thing--knowing I often won't be able to help myself...

Dr. D said...

O...K... "Ya got me...Bill" (Jim Carey --"The Mask"--) only it's James, Scot and Prof. Ken: Don't know enough about the WC to say anything intelligent, so, will ask the question- what is the WC church? I get Wesley- but am not sure beyond that? Be patient fellers...this is an ol' SBC dude tryin' to catch up wit'cha...sort of like a Biplane trying to catch up with a F17...but hey...if you can take the G's...right?;-)

Ken Schenck said...

Hey Dr. D. The Wesleyan Church is one of the many offshoots of Methodism (like the Free Methodists and Nazarenes--James is a Scottish Nazarene and has a long standing jab exchange going on with the Drury of whom he speaks).

Part of us withdrew from the Methodist Church in the mid-1800's because we opposed slavery. The other half was an accumulating snowball of smaller revivalist groups in the holiness revivals of the late 1800's.

We're not very big and I think are merger friendly ;-) I think our theology has a lot of potential for this postmodern context (we're more heart than head oriented, more unifying than divisive). We've increasingly struggled a little to know how we're different from the rest of American evangelical Christianity, which tends to be heavily Calvinist. I'd like to think that bloggers like me and the Drury of mention have been making a little dent in distinguishing ourselves.

How's that for a quick thumbnail!

Bill Barnwell said...

Ken, it's ironic you say that so much of Evangelicalism is Calvinistic. Most my Calvinist friends are constantly bemoaning how Wesleyan the American church has become. I wish they were right!Do you have any contacts with the Missionary Church? Our home base of academics is Bethel College (the one in Indiana). I think Bill Craig still has his membership with the Missionary Church, he'd probably be our "biggest name." However, we have a number of solid scholars at Bethel and many outstanding pastors across the country. In any event, we've always been on pretty friendly terms with the Wesleyan church. Occasionally one of our MC teens will even do the disloyal deed of choosing IWU over Bethel :)

Ken Schenck said...

I'm a little acquainted with Bethel since I know Gene Carpenter and Fred Long (who's now on his way to Asbury). I knew Thane Ury a little once upon a time as well, although not well.

Yes, I would say for all my moaning you're quite right that Arminianism has had its effect on broader evangelicalism as well (in fact a major pastor in my church suggested that our purpose as a distinct denomination was at the status of "mission accomplished" ;-)

In particular, I view eternal security as an Arminianized version of the perseverance of the saints. Also, it's actually not too easy to find a Baptist who doesn't believe in free will these days.

I would say that the Missionary Church in general is a little more fundamentalized than I am hoping for the Wesleyans (although probably the look from the pew is often quite similar). Doesn't the Missionary Church oppose women in senior roles of ministry?

In any case, my descriptions of the WC are sometimes attempts at self-fulfilling prophecies :-)

Brad Boydston said...

I am a part of the Evangelical Covenant Church. Several years ago we accidently created an annual midwinter conference that happens at the end of January, beginning of February each year. Lot's of speakers -- some from within and some from without. But it doesn't really matter. They're all secondary to the connections that happen during that week each year. No official decision making takes place and no single midwinter conference really has the power to influence the direction of the denomination. BUT the CUMULATIVE effect of years and years of this kind of connectional event is more powerful than any other denominational institution. Might the Wesleyan Church be so blessed, too.

Bill Barnwell said...

Hi Ken. The Bethel men you mentioned are all great guys. Certainly Gene and Fred are great Evangelical scholars and not of the fundamentalist mode. Thane left Bethel a couple years ago and is now in missions. As for the MC on a whole, it definitely has some fundamentalist tendancies but nothing like what you would find with the independant Baptists.

I can't think of any women serving as senior pastors in our denomination but there are a handful that serve as associates. Our official position and practice with women is uneven and typical of other denominations that allow women to serve in some capacities but not as "senior pastors." Some of our churches would be uncomfortable with women on staff period, though many would not. This is odd considering one of the strands that merged into what is now known as the Missionary Church had a rich history of female ministers (Then called "ministering sisters"). Many of our MC churches here in Michigan and elsewhere were planted and pastored initially by women!

But now the vast majority would be uncomfortable with such a prospect. I'm trying to do my part to get people to think more broadly on the subject and point out the inconsistencies of "complementarianism." Though perhaps an even bigger annoyance to me would be the prevelance of pretribulational dispensationalism in the denomination.

Ken Schenck said...

Bill, much of this would also be a description of the Wesleyan Church. And you're certainly right that Gene Carpenter is a top notch OT scholar. Is Fred still UM?

Bill Barnwell said...

I went through the graduate program at Bethel and gained a ton from Long and Carpenter. I really appreciate those guys. I'm not sure where Long's membership formally is. I know he at least attended Missionary Churches reguarly when I was living in Mishawaka as an undergrad. If he was UM, I would assume once he moves he would become active there again, and I would imagine he might be more comfortable in an Evangelical UM church. There's one MC near Asbury, but not exactly a ton in Kentucky overall. I think we have churches in most the 50 states the most concentrated areas are in Indiana, Michigan, and Ohio.

Aaron said...

random thought... If you want to hear Wesleyan or Nazerine guys ... come to a CCCU event ... that's all we have.

Same small man problem ... so we go to you guys.

Keith Drury said...

The reason I am not in Florida is the Wesleyan General Superintendents recently uncovered a plot by the Nazarenes to take over all our large churches and colleges while 1900 ministers and spouses are off in Florida... 300 of us were asked to stay behind and guard the city walls... we have torches in clay pots and are here waiting in the dark... Psssst... see anyone out there yet?

Ken Schenck said...

The word is that the Gathering was a huge success. Drury's blog has links to what's being said in blogland about it.

By the way, although Jim Dunn was on the committee, I guess the idea originated back with Dave Holdren when he was GS.